Hugo Munoz: You are awesome, thank you for coming to the show coffee with Hugo. I don’t want to take too much time from you, thank you for being here, thank you for joining us. A lot of people wanted to meet you. Please tell us a little bit before we start, please tell us about you first.

Gaspar Epro: I am Gaspar, I am from Estonia originally. I used to do high jump also myself. Not so good, but during my bachelor's studies I got more into high jump. My coach was one of the best high jump coaches in Estonia. He was 79-80 years old at that time, so we trained for a few years together, with one of the best female Estonian high jumpers Anna Lijustsenko, who is 1.68 tall. I don’t know how that is in feet, but her PB is 1.96. How much is that in feet? No Idea, but it's quite good for when you put in comparison to the height, she should be in top 10 in the world maybe, but you can ask that from Stefan Holm. Um yeah, then there I got more into high jump. Then I did an exchange. I wanted to learn a bit more about high jump, and Cologne in Germany at that time there was the world high jump center with the coach Wolfgang Ritzdorf, and so I wanted to go there. So I had the opportunity to do an exchange program with Erasmus, for the first year, and it was so cool so I wanted to go back. So I went back to Estonia then I went back to Cologne again after my masters to do my PHD. With that I got to know a lot of high jumpers and during my first year, my first half year actually, during my PHD in Germany. My coach was 84 and unfortunately he died just before the London Olympic Games in May 2012, and then that was basically the time point when, so I was always helping him with the training because I was always injured. So I was helping him with Anna quite a lot and coached also some kids, so after he wrote in his last letter to Anna that she should ask me to coach her, so from that point I started to coach mostly high jump, then I went first competition with Anna was the European Championships, when I was just coaching Anna before in some competitions when I was in Germany and I helped her also when my coach wasn’t there, but that was the time point when I really started coach, and I took over my old training group. I had the high jumpers, Anna, some pole vault girl, some sprinters. That is where I started to coach, and during my PHd then it got better, I was mostly coaching from distance, I still do. Then I would go with Anna to all kinds of competitions, and got some medals. It was good.

Hugo Munoz: Thats awesome Gaspar, yeah when we were in Germany we saw that there were so many great competitions, such a love for high jump, the atmosphere was awesome by the way. That was pretty cool, so now you are in London, how is it?

Gaspar Epro: I did my PHD in Cologne in Germany, got to know a lot of people. Ended up also joining a track club. I helped with coaching sometimes in competitions and then I finished my PHD but I got a position here in London, in a university as a research fellow, so I decided to leave Germany. That was 3 years ago, exactly march of this year, so yeah that's why I am in London now working as a research fellow, actually now senior research fellow lecturer in sports.

Hugo Munoz: Wow, yeah we have a lot of friends in common and even before I got to meet you, your name always kept popping up, and what everybody was saying was Gaspar super bright. It was really really positive, and I see that you have done considerable amount of research which we are really excited because there are questions from people not only from the U.S. but kids that are national team members from Argentina, some from Peru, some questions that actually there is a gentleman that coaches here but he is originally from Sweden. So I think its going to be great. Now let's dig into it. First question here says high jump is always evolving and coaches are trying to find more productive and efficient ways to jump and train. In your opinion what are these new tendencies in training?

Gaspar Epro: I think the new tendencies in training, occurring specifically in high jump, most coaches try to go for more speed. More velocity in the take off, and this in the last year there is more and more work with the run up velocity and being able to take off with more velocity. More towards speed flopping, and it's also the case more in Germany right now, and you when see Mateusz really good jumping, and you can see that you can jump from a really fast velocity and you can jump really high, but this needs a lot of work otherwise you are inconsistent. You can see that also in the development in high jump with new jumpers coming in. Most of them are in fact speed jumpers. You would determine them like that, so there is more work done in this field I think, because there are all kinds of exercises. It's still based on 70’s 80’s when everybody still uses the same exercises there no need really to invent a wheel because it's basically the same thing still. It's just you need to find a way to teach that specific athlete or kids to jump higher, so from the run up in societies I think there are no really new things but there are more exercises for run up instead of too many plyos or too much strength. Then what they used to do 20-30 years ago.

Hugo Munoz: It's very interesting that you say that because when I look at even my old training ways it's kind of like, I am amazed that I am still walking haha.

Gaspar Epro: yeah yeah yeah I can imagine that haha.

Hugo Munoz: It was just different, but yeah. That was pretty cool thank you. Another question here says, what percentages do you like working in the weight room?

Gaspar Epro: Do they probably mean percentages of intensities or weights?

Hugo Munoz: Weights yeah.

Gaspar Epro: I like to go to the gym probably 2 times a week, 2-3 times a week depending on the period. I tend to do quite high percentages with my athletes. We start with the preparation period, we go lower ones but then we go higher. Quite fast and work with quite high loads with low repetitions, so actually 6 repetitions quite early in the phase already and towards the pre competition period it goes even more lower, so I don’t really do more in the gym exercises over 8 reps not really only in the first few, maybe in the first few months of the first two months after preparation period. I do a lot of also in the weight room because my research and biomechanics is more about muscles and tendons and how they adapt, and I have throughout the year in exercises in also high percentages to help the tendon to adapt because the tendon doesn't really adapt with low percentages almost not at all when you train below 70 percent, so nothing is going to happen with the tendon if you train at low intensities at least this case. For that I have separate small blocks before several trainings during the week where we do some isometric exercises, like holds. Which approximately 90 percent of the maximum or I do some like longer time under tension exercises which is shown to help also for the tendon to adapt because in high jump when your tendons are not ready for that then the achilles tendons and patella tendons are the two main tendons what go and to say get inflamed, you can’t really call it an inflammation it is more disruption in the collagen fibers and it can end up in a rupture. When you don't train accordingly.

Hugo Munoz: You are right, you are 100 percent right. Thank you, another question right here says what is the difference between training men and training women? For high jump specifically.

Gaspar Epro: It's always easier to train women because they can write them a plan and you know they are going to do everything and don’t really complain. Whereas men always complain, somehow, so that's why I think it's a bit easier to train with girls and women, but not with everybody, but a lot it tends to be like that.

Hugo Munoz: Ok cool, and this is just a question just to piggyback off of this , do you think that as far as training women need more, guys get before the competition a lot more rest and women you can just train them through. Have you found any difference in something like that or not really?

Gaspar Epro: Yeah it tends to be like that. There are also some studies showing that women lose the major strength training with time, in comparison to men, men you can leave a week of its even in some cases even better to leave them 3-4 days free and then jump or to competition, but women it drops quite fast, so the training stimulus from the strength training that drops really fast and easy, so for women you need to hold the strength training longer than for men. I have seen that also with some of my athletes, so yeah you can easily leave 3-4 days even depending on the athlete, off before the competition, or for some one day before and some activation training in the gym, and for some you don’t need that. Generally for women they need that.

Hugo Munoz: It is interesting that you mention that, it is kind of like the same thing that I found, it depends on the person, some people need it and some people don’t, but you are 100 percent right. Actually this is interesting because in regards to Daniella, if she takes too much rest before the competition the leg is just not there, but interesting. Thank you very much that's awesome. Another question right here says, could you give an example of a typical week of training in pre season and then also in competition week?

Gaspar Epro: Pre Season, a typical week would be for me normally, we train once a day. Right now I have one athlete from Estonia, she has jumped 1.92. She’s now 32 years old already, so we train once a day and 5-6 times a week. Maybe 5 times a week, with her I normally do Monday Tuesday training, Wednesday training, Thursday off, Friday training, Saturday training, Sunday off. It depends also on if she has to work, but when you are with a younger athlete and they don’t have to work, then I would do Sundays always off and 6 days a week. Not always but mostly Sunday off, Monday would always be a strength or gym session. Tuesday normally jumping day, Wednesday I tend to do more the start of the preparation period, longer runs, or tempo runs. I usually don’t go over 200 meters, with jumpers I stay around 100-150 meters, and all around core and circuit exercises and circuit for the whole body and includes also some plyos and stuff. Wednesday I would do another sprint or gym, and then maybe friday or saturday depending of the week I would do high jump, but I don’t always have the same, sometimes I alternate some weeks and we don’t do any high jump, those days I would do a plyo circuit, normally let them do a circuit with plyos 3-5 exercises and 2-3 rounds. Let's say first exercise something with hurdles, next exercise with one leg jumps then boxes, then again the same round. For sprinting I normally also do maximum of 60 with more than 90 percentage of velocity, and almost everyday there is always a tempo run(s) inside where you have to run approximately 75-80 percent, with phases of the posture and running mechanics, also one day with curves, and normally on Saturdays I’ll have a hill session. My pre competition and competition season is not always the same, depending, in one month I do more plyos, next month I do more uphill things, and then I do downhill again to get into faster velocities at the end of pre season. In the season then it depends when the most important competition is so the first competitions which are not so important, or they seem a bit tired so they don’t leave them too many days off or I’m not doing any tapers so for a big competition I tend to do I taper between 7-9 days where they have high intensifies with long rests one day in with one day off training and normally one day before the competition I tend to do with both men and women it doesn’t matter or it depends but mostly I do one day before a gym session with quite high intensives and percentages but really really low reps. I do mostly only 3-4 repetitions and 3-4 sets. Then do normally some plyos on top of that and sprints, mostly one leg poundings from a box down or things like that. That would a shorter version of that, but the preparation period seasonally always changes, I normally do 3 weeks in 1 week easier, so 3 weeks medium and the 3rd one is the highest in terms of volume and I switch normally about let’s say when the preseason in Europe here starts in about, our first season we have about 1-2 weeks off in September we start mid September, start of October I do a switch somewhere around Christmas/New Years to more faster stuff, and start to do high jump specific around November time when they have no injuries or pre stuff from last season. It depends but mainly it looks like that from me.

Hugo Munoz: Luis just joined!

Gaspar Epro: Luis Joel hahaha! Hola!

Hugo Munoz: Alli esta Luis, alli tambien esta¡ Carlos Layoy he is the high jumper from Argentina 2.25 he was right there too. Hola Luis como estas! Bien bien! That’s awesome that’s awesome, aqui estamos pasandola bien solo faltas tu Luis! Ya te vamos a traer al programa, por si acaso Gaspar ha bautizado el programa con un cafe con Hugo, asi que voy a tratar de traer un cafe de Puerto Rico en tu nombre haciendo un entrevista a ti en algún momento! Salud!!

Gaspar Epro: Yeah you need to do the a next one with Luis also.

Hugo Munoz: I’ll call him, I’ll call him! Cool cool! Let’s see, how are we on time? Claro que si tu eres el proximo!

Gaspar Epro: It’s fine it’s fine.

Hugo Munoz: Allison Wood esta! Nachin (Ignacio) Perez mi amigo de Espana, ok next question, plyos and speed before or after weights?

Gaspar Epro: That's a really good question. I use to do a lot of that when you do weights I like to do plyos and weights just after it, but that’s also with a small risk because when you come from the gym and start to do a lot faster stuff there is a bit higher injury risk but I know coaches don’t do that at all then I think In the U.S. it’s also not so popular. I think that in the U.S. they do weights and sprints sessions quite often, like weights in the evening and sprints in the morning. I know some people that have done plyos and sprints after the gym but then they started to get injured so they switched that, so they do just In The evening gym and then some runs and plyos before, but I still like to do some plyos normally I don’t do high 90 percent runs anymore after a gym session but I always do some plyos to let them feel a bit more elastic and yes some box jumps normally or down from box I don’t really like jumps on box I like more jumps down from box. Yeah because I think that’s more jumping related than jumping on a high box. Then I do some standing jumps or box jumps down from a box, and when I do that I won’t go with runs. I always also do some runs after gym but I don’t go mostly over 75-80 percent so I try to keep the running mechanics and not too fast movements.

Hugo Munoz: Very understandable.

Gaspar Epro: With the hope that something from the gym can transfer to the track. I don't always work but I still try.

Hugo Munoz: That's pretty cool, that's good stuff to be honest with you. I would agree 100 percent with what you're giving me. There is always a risk you just can’t go too fast after a weights session, your body already had some trauma and it would probably be putting the jumper I risk. I 100 percent agree with you. Cool cool.

Gaspar Epro: I also like shit throwing and stuff after gym, and front or back.

Hugo Munoz: That's pretty cool, awesome! Let’s see, in your opinion how many contacts (plyos, jumps etc.) Would you do in preseason and in season when we are talking about jumps now that we are talking about plyos.

Gaspar Epro: yeah even though I’m a researcher and I like to count stuff I don’t count that anymore, I use to count that in the first 2 years but it’s too much stuff in the training change all the time so I don’t even do a yearly plan really specific anymore, I have my main plan in mind and what I want to do but I write down maximum a week every Sunday and I know what I want to do but I don’t count exact contacts anymore.

Hugo Munoz: It’s interesting because, you have done this for so many years that there is a point where you have a feeling for the athletes.

Gaspar Epro: Yeah, for them I have a good feeling, but I gave that up there were too much numbers and it’s not about that, it’s more about quality than quantity at that point, so I’m not really counting that. I go there with the feeling even though I’m a scientist but it’s a mixture of art and science.

Hugo Munoz: I 100 percent agree with you because many things can change from one day to the next one so going and working with an athlete and maybe who knows maybe this athlete was studying or they had an exam or they had something to do or some personal thing and if they are not 100 percent just going by what a hard copy of the plan is we probably could be playing injury, I 100 percent agree with you. Good stuff man. Let’s see, why do some jumpers lift the day before the competition?

Gaspar Epro: To feel yourself a bit lighter the next day, it gives like an extra boost for the next day and that’s probably why. You spoke to Javier, he used to do it the same day didn’t he?

Hugo Munoz: I think so, I am going to call Marino to check on that.

Gaspar Epro: I think they lifted early in the morning the same day, if I am not mistaken.

Hugo Munoz: Javier, Marino I know them for a long time. By the way you happen to be the first interview, when we tried to do this with Javier, we were trying this for 3-4 hours and unfortunately in Cuba the internet is not like the one we have, it didn’t quite help us for the interview.

Gaspar Epro: In the mornings yeah.

Hugo Munoz: I heard that basically they use to do it the same day in the morning, and it worked very well for them. Interestingly enough I personally was more of a rest person.

Gaspar Epro: I normally do it also the day before but in some athletes 2 days before then rest then competition, but you just need to try it out.

Hugo Munoz: Cool! Let’s see, what is your favorite food?

Gaspar Epro: Wait what is that called...how is that Peruvian thing? Saltado?? No.

Hugo Munoz: LOMO SALTADO!

Gaspar Epro: LOMO SALTADO!! Hahaha!

Hugo Munoz: Man that’s great!! Lomo saltado is very good!

Gaspar Epro: Yes arroz con habichuelas is also very good! Hahaha.

Hugo Munoz: Hahahaha ok you know what now that we are talking about arroz with habichuelas, tell us a little bit about your friendship with Luis, how did it start?

Gaspar Epro: He also came to Cologne just shortly after I started my PhD. I was still jumping myself at that time and he was there every day, in the Uni training with the other guys and that’s how we got to know each other. We didn’t really speak at the start so much, but then we went to a competition where I had to do triple jump where I broke my leg, and at that competition he was just watching, so then we got to know each other a lot. Now when there is no lockdown I go to Cologne quite often and I stay at Luis’s place. I’ve been to Puerto Rico and I help him sometimes. We are really good friends.

Hugo Munoz: That is awesome, I see it online and I saw it when you were in Puerto Rico. It looks like you guys had way too much fun. That’s funny, somebody threw a last question in there, they said what are good tests for the jumper. As far as testing, what are good tests?

Gaspar Epro: For jumpers I’m using classical. When you want to compare in one athlete then it’s always nice to do standing jumps and stuff also but to compare if they get better with faster velocities then I tend to do in everyday training when I don’t have any measurement devices with me then I tend to do standing triples or standing 5 steps with some pre run up and then compare the difference between those. When the difference is bigger it’s better because then you can jump higher with a bigger velocity but I also do when there are some technology available then I do quite a lot of drop jumps and try to get the reactive strength index. I do with my athletes also some tendon testing stuff but that’s not really so easily available to everybody so I have that in my lab and I’m Germany the Olympic committee just had some tendon analysis but I always do some plank and plank 30s and I take also the contact times, for testing and also for different exercises like pounds and one legs poundings double poundings. Hey it’s Mateusz Przybylko!

Hugo Munoz: He is so fast! I mean this guy is just so fast entering the bar!

Gaspar Epro: Yeah Mateusz Przybylko is one of the fastest currently in the world I guess.

Hugo Munoz: Yea I was very impressed with him. Hi Mateusz how are you? It’s great to have you some day, we are going to have you on the show. Gaspar just baptized the show as coffee with Hugo so it’s going to keep going I guess hehehehe!

Gaspar Epro: That would be cool yeah! Every week!

Hugo Munoz: Hey man you baptized the show so Coffee with Hugo is in honor of Gaspar he was the first one n the show! Let’s do it! Cheers!

Gaspar Epro: That's a good idea.

Hugo Munoz: Hey first and foremost I want to thank you very much for joining us. There have been so many people asking for more information, different points of view, it is very enriching to the high jump community to start getting the perspective of people that have done so much for the sport and at the same time that they have their own perspective and their own results from different countries I think that this is going to be great! I was thinking about bringing back the high jump festival. I use to do a high jump festival here. It was a lot of fun. I think that I wanna bring it back. The high jump festival was a lot of fun you know sometimes how the sport, it wasn’t a money making thing.

Gaspar Epro: Of course, it never is.

Hugo Munoz: There was a point when I stopped doing that because I moved from Minnesota to Texas. It was the move then work and I started getting a little bit more overloaded, but I wanna bring it back. When we bring it back you stay with us, you are a part of our family now.

Gaspar Epro: Thank you!

Hugo Munoz: Anything else that you might want to add?

Gaspar Epro: No you can always write me and I can answer or when somebody has a question I can always answer.

Hugo Munoz: Thank you my friend take care of yourself. I appreciate you!

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